If they were ever on to begin with. I missed the very beginning of the debate, and both Obama and Clinton were going at it when I tuned in. Regardless of what you might think of the dust up, I think it was good to get some of this out on the table.Obama was asked about his comments on Ronald Reagan, and Republicans being the "party of ideas." And he also was asked about his many "present" votes as an Illinois State Senator. I'm not sure that he resolved the concerns that some Democrats have. He said tonight that he didn't say he agreed with the Republican ideas, but that they simply had ideas. If that is the case, then why didn't he make that more clear at the time?
I think he missed an opportunity to acknowledge how his comments might have been misunderstood. And I still maintain that it was a really dumb thing for him to say in what is clearly a very tight contest. If you watch the video it appears that he was, to an extent, trying to dis President Clinton. Maybe in response to Bill Clinton's comments during the campaign.
He also didn't seem to really answer the question from Edwards about why he voted "present" so often. I asked friends in IL-NOW about this, and they said the reason they did not endorse Obama was because some of the issues he took a pass on involved reproductive health and LGBT civil rights. They said that Obama represented a very liberal district, and would not have suffered any political consequence for supporting women, or lesbians and gays.
Obama, clearly taking a shot an Sen. Clinton, said that he didn't know who he was running against -- Bill or Hillary. Clinton responded that they both have spouses that are strongly supporting them, and that it was a good thing.
Clearly, I support Sen. Clinton. My response to Obama's charge is that if he can't stand up to criticism from Bill Clinton, how in the heck does he expect to be able to withstand attacks from the Republican smear machine, should he become the nominee?
John Edwards had to struggle to stay in the debate tonight, but some are suggesting that the dust up between Obama and Clinton might have helped him. I think both Edwards and Clinton scored points in the health care discussion. Clinton drew applause when she said, rightfully, that you must start out asking for all that you want and not with a plan that leaves 15 million people out from the beginning.
At this point I don't have an idea who will win in South Carolina. Given the number of African American voters it would seem to trend toward Sen. Obama. John Edwards did well in SC in the last primary. And I don't think you can ever count Sen. Clinton out.
7 comments:
Obama's wife's wal-mart connection
Sadly, they are both as shallow as a grave dug without a shovel
I did not see the debate for various reasons. However, I have been reading various news accounts of it, from a wide number of sources, so I think I have a sense of it.
I am greatly disheartened by this clash between Senator Clinton and Senator Obama. In the name of full
disclosure, I do not support either of them, I support John Edwards.
The sound of acrimony in Obama's and Clinton's voices is very upsetting to me.
Someone must elevate themselves and get out of the fray. This is- and excuse my vivid and unpleasant imagery please- a Republican wet dream.
On another blog I got my ass kicked for speaking out against the hate rhetoric within the democratic party and I seem to have lost someone I considered a friend of my blog over further remarks at my own place.
So be it. But where will this lead us? I am afraid it is the road to nowhere.
If these candidates are honest with themselves and if we as their supporters are honest with ourselves we will quickly see that everyone had pretty big skeletons in their own closets.
Hillary is so tied up into Corporate money that it is something to be concerned about and one of my biggest issues with her. (Her AIPAC ties scare me the most.)
Something about Obama and his ability to stand up for LGBT people and women is not sitting well with me.
Edwards is a little too slick and I fear he will compromise when pressed because maybe he doesn't have the substance below. I don't know and it is on my mind although I support him.
Let's get these dead old bones of those skeletons out of the goddam way and move ahead. Let's get the living skeletons out and move ahead.
Democracy and politics should be about collaboration and compromise. Compromise has come to represent weakness in our country, which is one of the saddest things to me.
It is simply pathetic to me that rhetoric in this land has deteriorated to what it has - we are eating our own relatives with wild abandon while Huck,Mitt, McCain and that f*cking Giuliani wait in the wings.
Lee Atwater must be laughing his ass off in whatever afterlife he ended up in. I grow further disheartened each and every day.
While I bend I do not break; we must elevate ourselves to face the future in some more creative and collaborative way.
That's not the way of American politics, some may say.
Well that is the problem now isn't it. I am over the problem - I want the solution.
You know, I recall George W's dad campaigning for him in 2000, but he was not at every single campaign location berating other candidates. He made Bush stand on his own.
Clinton calls herself a feminist but then runs behind her husband and allows him to 'beat up on the threat" while she plays nice.
This shows me she is weak and I don't want someone that weak in the White House.
Hillary does not deserve to be where she is anyway. This is an issue of dynasty and aristocracy. Hillary road Bill's coat tails into a Senate seat she would never have won if she was not the former first lady. She is still riding his coat tails. Is that the actions of a feminist? Marry power and ride it to the top?
There are plenty of women who made their bones the hard way coming up through the party ranks, same as Obama and Edwards. Hillary did not. Her claim to fame is "marrying right". That is not the American tradition of meritoracy.
I'm so glad Obama finally defended himself and stopped playing nice.
He looked and spoke presidential.
Hillary on the other hand sounded like a vindictive, which is what everyone thinks she is anyway. She showed her divisiveness. That performance did not endear her at all to moderates and independents.
She will not win a general election. No way. McCain will have a field day with her.
I did see the entire debate and to be honest,Obama is the one who set the nasty tone from the very beginning. In his first opportunity to speak, he slammed Hillary and Edwards.
He also brushed off the slum lord issue in Chicago. I have a post about it today and it shows you that Obama was in with a very sleezy guy and was willing to take campaign donations from him even when he knew that he had not supplied heat to the senior apartments for more than five weeks! These apartments housed very low income, black senior citizens. These are the ones that Obama claims to care about.
If you look at his votes, he often votes against or votes "present" when it comes to help for the poor and will always back big business.
The only reason why Obama did as good as he did in Illinois is because he was running against Alan Keyes, who is a real nut case.
Obama is very much to the right.
I've heard Obama complain about Hillary Clinton voting "yes" on the Kyle-Lieberman amendment. Yet, he didn't bother leaving his campaign in NH to vote against it. Why do you think that was? He said he didn't get enough notice, however, all the other candidates had the same notice and made it to Washington to vote. He didn't go because he's good friends with Lieberman and didn't want to vote against a bill with his name on it. He may not have agreed with it, but he put his friendship for Lieberman before his country. He has called Lieberman his "mentor" and said he has a lot of admiration for him.
That tells you all you need to know.
Check out the post on my blog and you'll get all the info on that deal with Rezko, the slum lord. Check out the deal Obama got on his mansion thanks to Rezko. It shows you who Obama is.
Anonymous - Thanks for the information.
Joseph - I couldn't disagree more.
Fran - Always thoughtful comments, thanks!
Dragon horse - I couldn't disagree more! Sen. Clinton is very much her own person, and earned her place in the Senate.
Mary Ellen - Good points. I did Tivo the debate when it was broadcast again at 1 am, so will go home tonight to watch the beginning.
BAC
BAC:
Great roundup. Between you and me, we covered the waterfront.
I'm pretty much right down the line with you as to the comments. "Anon's" info will no doubt be useful.
"Joseph's" opinion is that of the MSM and I agree it's all wrong. Nobody gives you power. You have to take it. The press can't just deem Obama untouchable and have that be the end of the story.
Again, with "FranIam" I have a minor disagreement. I think one of the attributes both Bill Clinton and George W. Bush had was the ability to tune the media out. The media has their narrative of how the campaign should play out so they the media can seem to have led the candidates to the promised land of THE NON-NEGATIVE CENTER. That's not how politics works. You have to make the case for yourself and tarnish your opponents' cases. Both Obama and Clinton did that. i think Clinton was more successful. It's a necessary part of the process. If someone can come up with a better system, I'll listen but just crowning Obama because he's said and done nothing is not my idea of a different system. I agree with her suspicions about Edwards and I certainly agree with her about Obama. But we part company on Clinton. I recognize the corporate thing but Dennis Kucinich is not an option. I don't think HRC is the lesser of evils at all. I think she'd make an excellent president. I don't particularly care for the bickering either but both Senator and President Clinton are right. Obama must be challenged at every opportunity because the press is giving him a free ride.
Like you, I diagree with Dragon Horse. She's earned this spot. Neither Obama nor Edwards has served as long as Clinton in the Senate. She was invovled every step of the way for the 8 years of the Bill Clinton presidency plus her work with the CDF and Rose and the Senate watergate committee.
As far as McCain wiping the floor with her, thats just silly. It is still America where 9 year old girls get nose jobs, right? Never mind their politics, just look at the two physically. McCain's hands are paralyzed. His face is disfigured. She presents a crisp, attractive image. In the land of plastic surgery. That's plenty. Never mind that she WON'T start a global thermo-nuclear war.
ME: Just wonderful stuff all around.
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